Don't forget Joe Public

[spitfires]

One thing which we will need to consider if we go the OzZaNlTivo route is that we, unlike the others, have a legacy customer base of non-techy users.

The technofarts can obviously install their own disc image. For joe public we would, I guess, need to supply a pre-imaged replacement hard disc and (probably) an ethernet card. They would have to open the case themselves and plug it in, or else (thinks out loud...) we setup a network of localised "drop-in" centres where they could take it and have it done by one of us techies (only takes a few minutes).

That is unless we can come up with something simple that can be done (or at least initiated) via telnet and a serial cable!?

[healeydave]

Yes of-course, we will be able to provide pre-installed disks and probably an update service where non-techy users can send in their disk to be updated.

I don't know if any of the other teams managed to reverse engineer the backend system enough to provide and update image that could be pushed out but I guess without the image hacked in the first place (to point at a new server), thats irrelevant anyway

[Inner Zone]

For joe public we would, I guess, need to supply a pre-imaged replacement hard disc and (probably) an ethernet card. They would have to open the case themselves and plug it in, or else (thinks out loud...) we setup a network of localised "drop-in" centres where they could take it and have it done by one of us techies (only takes a few minutes).

Add me to the proposed setup of localised "drop-in" centres. Would be happy to drop in a preconfigured drive and Ethernet card for those whom are not able.

[Kitschcamppalace]

We'll also need some Pronto owners to capture codes for boxes that are currently unsupported.

[healeydave]

I have an old Pronto just for that purpose.

Fortunately, most people will already have a working STB but going forward, if new STB's come to market without a compatible set of IR codes, we should be able to add them in to the existing database.

[Sandeman]

Completely concur with the sentiment. Many people out here are not as "Techy" on the Linux front and the maximum we can expect is users capable of blowing an image onto a new disk. So my entreaties are PLEASE when you are ready, KEEP IT SIMPLE and of course if it is beyond the scope of some please offer a disk replacement service. I know this might put a considerable burden on capable members but without clear, non-techy, step-by-step instructions with screen-shots and reassurances we might be defeating the object of keeping people running Tivo!

[spitfires]

Absolutely. Several of us are champions of the "KISS for Joe" principle (as I'm calling it)

[Kitschcamppalace]

That will come, but for the next month or so it will be very techy. The building blocks need to be sorted before we can add the bells and whistles.

[keep_s1_alive]

This is excellent work team S1! I've just moved across from "the other place" and am keen to keep the S1 alive (did you guess that already...), so offer my services to the cause. I work from home in Wokingham, mostly with Oracle SQL databases and UNIX scripting, so I doubt those skills will be of help, but I'm more than happy to act as a drop-in centre to help others. Over the years, I've upgraded my disks and networked our TiVo, now only wish I'd bought a 2nd machine for testing, but the existing one is SO reliable I didn't think it worthwhile!

[irrelevant]

I think, you want to make it as easy and cheap as possible for those non-techie users. If you are going to make people swap discs or install network cards, when the telly is nowhere near their router, then you're only going to get a minority of users bothering.

This occurs to me -

Has anybody got details on how the dial-up works at the moment? I'm assuming it connects to an internet access port somewhere.

How long can the "dial prefix" be? Can it be set this way through the regular interface?

- it should be possible to set up an alternate access number for boxes to dial in to. I don't think it would be possible to maintain using a freephone number, but a geo or uk-wide number would still be an inclusive call for many people. Or how about an 0871 or suchlike that would raise a little revenue to cover costs? How long to connections usually last? I'd not want to charge 10p/min for 10 mins every day, for instance.


If the TiVos connect to a particular IP address for the updates, then the update service would have to intercept those. Easiest way is to dial into a LAN rather than the internet itself, which allows one to fiddle with such things as much as you like on the outgoing gateway.


If we can get this sorted out, it should be possible to say things like:

"To switch to the our service, you need only set the dial-prefix to 012345. No other changes needed, and you benefit from all our extra features!"

[mikerr]

To do it *just* by changing the phone number would require reverse-engineering much more than has been done by other groups.

It's easier and more feasible short term to do it via scripts - which can of course be put on preconfigured drives and operate by dialup.

The end user would be none the wiser.

[LarryDavidJr]

Just to throw in my two-pence...

I'm not a TiVO tech expert (never got the spare time to do any hacking), but the 'Joe' solution I think will also probably fall down a bit if people have to send their box away. Also, the ethernet cards are a bit expensive anyway? (haven't seen them cheaper than about a hundred quid).

I think the direction to look in must be via the modem or possibly the serial cable route.

Based on the fact that you can directly connect two dial up modems, perhaps:

Disable dial tone detection on TiVO and:

TiVO modem -> RJ11 -> RJ11 -> PC modem host -> PC Internet Connection Sharing? then manual updates from TiVO menu?

I don't know how the TiVO then downloads EPG data, is it via FTP or something from a pre-determined IP address? If its a 'local' address that makes thing a bit easier ....

I was thinking that this will be easier to 'script up' for end users as most of the 'tweaking' work would be on the PC side.

An avenue worth exploring? Or way off the mark?

[spitfires]

Also, the ethernet cards are a bit expensive anyway? (haven't seen them cheaper than about a hundred quid).

That would be the cachecard with the on-board memory. This is only required if you have lots of recordings. A basic TurboNet card is about £35. Maybe cheaper in bulk. Still not cheap, so yes a dial-out alternative is required (and possible).

[LarryDavidJr]

I suppose lobbying TiVO for one last software update to allow easy configuration of phone number and/or update server IP address or hostname through the TiVO menu has about as much chance of success as a one legged man in an arse kicking contest?

[irrelevant]

To do it *just* by changing the phone number would require reverse-engineering much more than has been done by other groups.

It's easier and more feasible short term to do it via scripts - which can of course be put on preconfigured drives and operate by dialup.

The end user would be none the wiser.

That would work for those of us with a techy knowledge, of course.

There are three sorts of people we would want to cater for - those of us who know one end of a screwdriver from another, whom I don't see having any problems installing scripts, those people who have already had larger hard discs installed, maybe a cachecard or tivonet card, and are happy to do it again in order to keep running the TiVo, and and those who just want to watch TV and don't care how they do it.

It's that last lot who are going to just chuck the TiVo away and perhaps it's those whom are the ones we need to court -

The average Joe who has had the TiVo under the telly since they bought it, isn't going to want to spend >£50 on sending it away for a tivonet and software upgrade when they can get a brand new freeview PVR or HDD-DVDR for not much more. Heck, the TV in our bedroom can itself record DVB-T if I plug a memory card in the side. Nor are they going to want to mess about running cables to a PC or router... it'll be a "too much trouble, get a new smaller shiny thing instead. "

I think the easier we can make things for the non-technical out there, the more likely we are going to be at keeping them. Setting up a new dial-up server might be more work, but will keep a lot more people on-board.

Two questions therefore -

- how many people are there out there actually still running non-networked TiVos? i.e. what's the target audience for this?

- what is the aim of this exercise? To keep *our* TiVos running, or to keep *everybodies* TiVos running?