Net access to the new EPG??

[philg]

I've been lurking and avidly reading the post June 1 work but one question remains

I can see how you can replace Tivos dial up number with clever addition of a new "dial prefix" but how will it be possible to get network access to the new EPG without a new software image (with a new ip address)

Or will it be dialup only??

Thanks

Phil G

[spitfires]

Changes to the TiVo's software will be required whether you use dial-up or network to get the new epg.

If you already have network access then applying the software changes will obviously be easier.

If you don't currently have network access then I'm afraid it will be necessary to "open the box" and pull the disc (I don't believe there's any other way of changing the software outside of TiVo Inc doing it).

[irrelevant]

Not quite.

The new dial-up I've got running will (when I know the address) redirect any requests made to TiVo Inc's EPG servers over to the new servers being set up. Specifically, any requests to TiVo Inc's IP address will be changed to point to the new IP. This will allow an unmodified box to connect to the new server, for continuing EPG updates with nothing more needed than changing the dial-prefix.

I'm not involved in setting up the new server, so can't answer for definite, but the old code I have seen allows for software updates to be supplied to connecting boxes too, so in theory, it should be possible to send down any other necessary changes to anything that connects in, be it already modified or not.

HTH

Rob

Edit: You can see this now - connect to the new dial-up from a PC and try going to www.tivo.com ....

[millimole]

So - as I understand it:
For me as a non-networked user - the most straightforward option available (at the current state of play) would be to make some straightforward changes to the box settings. A further, less straightforward, and more expensive option, would be to replace the internal disk and install a network card. Both approaches would seem to lead to the same end-point?
Is this a correct analysis?
(Personally - I would be happy to spend out a bit to upgrade my drive, and have the flexibility of the network connection).

[irrelevant]

So - as I understand it:
For me as a non-networked user - the most straightforward option available (at the current state of play) would be to make some straightforward changes to the box settings. A further, less straightforward, and more expensive option, would be to replace the internal disk and install a network card. Both approaches would seem to lead to the same end-point?
Is this a correct analysis?
(Personally - I would be happy to spend out a bit to upgrade my drive, and have the flexibility of the network connection).

Yups. I think we would recommend a network upgrade of some sort, as the new telephone number will not be a freephone number, so unless you are one of the few on an any-time inclusive-calls deal, there will be an ongoing cost that was not there previously. And if you are opening the lid anyway, a disc upgrade is fairly trivial to do at the same time, if you get a ready-prepared one.

What I set out to do, however, was make that non-essential - to get something in place for the non-upgraded boxes owned by non-technical people to keep on working. (Many people seem to have recommended them to parents, etc., whom just get on and use it..) I think we've achieved that.

[philg]

Thanks for the info Spitfires

and I'm looking forward now to June

Phil G

[spitfires]

This will allow an unmodified box to connect to the new server, for continuing EPG updates with nothing more needed than changing the dial-prefix.

Sorry - afraid not. The new EPG server is not a like-for-like replacement for the TiVo Inc. one. The TiVo "mothership" has not been fully reverse-engineered - the OzTivo (& similar) alternatives replicate much of the official service but do so via re-written software on the tivo box.

A software change to the S1 box WILL be required to access the new EPG server
(whether you access it via network or dial-up and irrespective of the phone number or ip address used)

[irrelevant]

Sorry - afraid not. The new EPG server is not a like-for-like replacement for the TiVo Inc. one. The TiVo "mothership" has not been fully reverse-engineered - the OzTivo (& similar) alternatives replicate much of the official service but do so via re-written software on the tivo box.

So how close is it? What's missing? What happens when a standard TiVo tries to connect?

A software change to the S1 box WILL be required to access the new EPG server
(whether you access it via network or dial-up and irrespective of the phone number or ip address used)

Have we got details of exactly what the changes needed to the TiVo are, then ? And can they be sent down to unmodified TiVos that connect to the new server? Because I think that's something we really do need to be able to support, otherwise we'll lose everybody that doesn't want to pull the lid.

[spitfires]

So how close is it?

Sufficiently different to be incompatible.

What's missing?

Encryption for one thing; huge chucks of data exchange for another. (The replacement EPG does just that - it doesn't do any of the other stuff that a std TiVo does such as uploading your wish lists etc.). Only part of the data exchange has been reverse engineered.

What happens when a standard TiVo tries to connect?

"Connection failure"

Have we got details of exactly what the changes needed to the TiVo are, then ?

Not yet but see here for clues - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=317

And can they be sent down to unmodified TiVos that connect to the new server?

No.

Because I think that's something we really do need to be able to support, otherwise we'll lose everybody that doesn't want to pull the lid.

I agree but regrettably there's no way round that. There's no way to download new software to the TiVo without having a shell prompt (Bash prompt) on the TiVo and there's no way to get that onto the TiVo without pulling the disc.

[irrelevant]

There's no way to download new software to the TiVo without having a shell prompt (Bash prompt) on the TiVo and there's no way to get that onto the TiVo without pulling the disc.

There is a protocol in place to allow it - it is, after all, how 2.5.5 was put onto all the boxes in the first place, and 2.5.5a on subsequent requests. Maybe all we need to do is work out how that works.

[spitfires]

Yes if you can decode and replicate that then all our problems are sorted!

[irrelevant]

Yes if you can decode and replicate that then all our problems are sorted!

Well I'm very happy to have a go - reverse engineering client-server protocols is one of my more successful skills. Any chance of getting a snapshop of the working server, so I can set it up locally to tinker with?

[healeydave]

Hi Rob,

I think a good place to start (whilst there is still a window of opportunity) would be to capture the communication between the official TiVo server and a TiVo.
We also have a good test regime still available to us by easily being able to force a OS update by fooling an OS mismatch between 2.5.5 and 2.5.5a
As you know, when Tivo dials in, they do a set of checks like validate the account, check the time etc. They also check if the OS version in the Tivo matches the OS version in their database.
If not, all EPG activity is skipped and the correct OS version is downloaded instead.

I have a couple of scripts I can give you to (if you don't already have them) which will enable you to switch the software version over from 2.5.5 to 2.5.5a (and visa-versa) at will.
If you want to give it a go, all you need to do is run the 2.5.5a script (if your tivo is normally ver. 2.5.5) and force a daily call. When the mothership see's you version is 2.5.5a, it will mismatch and it will force feed you 2.5.5.
Monitor the traffic and it probably wouldn't het be a bad idea to grab the files downloaded before tivo starts processing them.
To go through the test again, simply change the version back again and force another daily call

These are the sort of things I always wanted to play with but never found the time, so good luck

D.

[spitfires]

Good thinking on forcing the s/w update - sneaky!

Is there a native sniffer anywhere (i.e. one that runs on the TiVo)?

Happy to help if you tell me what to do!
Geoff

[irrelevant]

Those scripts would be handy, thanks. That certainly sounds the best approach - I'm set up to capture Ethernet traffic, so can set a TiVo up to do that. Just need to rebuild the disk on the tivo with the tivonet in it...

I want to move the dial-up stuff up to the attic later, then can set the TiVos up on the desk upstairs, and will start having a play. I did have a good poke about in the TiVo-side scripts some years ago, and work out how they operated, but it's mostly forgotten by now. I imagine it will all come back to me!