tivo stuck during automatic daily call to 01612329094

[mrtickle]

@MrTickle - But would it not be possible for individual users to insert a script to terminate/reboot after, say 45 minutes ??

No on the normal tivo image, rebooting in GS boots straight back into the start of GS. If you can't complete GS you're screwed - it's pull the disc time.

[bri_tal]

But I am not talking about GS - simply daily update. If a script were to be used to achieve this, then, in the event of the user subsequently wishing to perform a GS, the relevant script could be suitably amended via telnet.

[DX30]

But I am not talking about GS - simply daily update. If a script were to be used to achieve this, then, in the event of the user subsequently wishing to perform a GS, the relevant script could be suitably amended via telnet.

I'm not sure I follow. A dialup user with an unmodifed TiVo does exactly what?

[mrtickle]

If I understand correctly, bri_tal would like the tclient script on the AltEPG image to enforce its own auto-cutoff, independent of the cutoff we have at the ISP end.

This would only cater for people with the AltEPG image! Most of the modem-only TiVos out in the wild, will always use the standard tivo image.

A far bigger problem with this is remembering you've done it. Guided Setup uses the same script to get the big download of data. A repeat Guided Setup may be years away - who's going to remember that they have to go in via telnet and remove the cut-off? Is ghstone's mum going to remember, for example? With no network card that means pulling the discs, finding a PC with an IDE interface, etc, just to re-run GS.

[healeydave]

I've noticed more people have/are biting the bullet and moving over to a Network configuration now.
Which ever way you look at it, its definitely the best route in the long term!

However, not to rule it out, it might be something we can look at, Brian has a pretty good handle on the routines that handle all communication between the TiVo and the Server now and we can tell the difference between a GS call and a regular Daily Call.

[millsb]

OK, let's consider (a) what is the requirement and (b) what is technically possible.

(a) the requirement

The basis of the requirement is to prevent long phone calls which result in the user incurring excessive phone usage charges.

I think therefore that the requirement is [1] to enable the user to be able to specify that normal (daily automatic) modem calls are limited to a maximum time - and if that time is exceeded [2] TiVo should abandon the call in as graceful a way as is possible. The presumption is that the time limit gets exceeded due to some transient fault (with the phone connection, with the server, with the TiVo itself) which is not expected to occur every time a call is made. Put another way, this means that if we abandon such a long call, we're assuming that there's a reasonable chance that next time TiVo attempts a call, it will complete successfully.

By implication therefore, it is required [3] that the limit does not apply if the call is not automatic (ie it's user-initiated), or is via network/serialPPP rather than modem, or is associated with activities other than daily programme guide download (so guided setup is exempt).

An implied requirement is that it should be possible [4] to achieve this with an unmodified tivo, or at least with one that is not configured for bash/telnet access.

(b) technical solutions

[1] the existing (altepg) mechanism for specifying call restrictions (using callwaitingprefix) could be extended to allow the user to specify a maximum call time limit.
[2] detecting duration of call time is possible (eg monitoring subprocess forked by TClient when it starts). If time limit is exceeded TiVo could be forced to reboot (not very graceful). Alternatively we could just kill the TClient process. This probably won't cause TiVo to reboot (so more graceful) and the tcphonehome process will probably catch the TClient process failure and ensure the phone line gets disconnected. I think this is existing standard functionality but it will need testing to make sure it does what's expected. Some care is needed here to distinguish between the case where a call actually exceeds the limit and the case one where the call completes in time but loading/indexing continues beyond the time limit. It is important that this latter case doesn't cause the TClient process to get killed.
[3] there's no problem distinguishing automatic calls from user initiated, test, guided setup. Also no problem detecting whether or not the call is via modem.
[4] this clearly isn't possible today with an unmodified TiVo. It could however be built into (an update to) the altepg image, and support for unmodded Tivos could be added once we've got online software updates working (that's still a while off yet).

So in summary, if I've understood the requirement correctly, then it's possible, but would require a fair bit of work to implement a reliable solution. It's worth doing if it's going to save a lot of people a lot of call charges - so maybe put to a vote: if the ability to limit call times as described here was available, would you use it? How much is it actually worth to you?

Brian

[bri_tal]

So in summary, if I've understood the requirement correctly, then it's possible, but would require a fair bit of work to implement a reliable solution. It's worth doing if it's going to save a lot of people a lot of call charges - so maybe put to a vote: if the ability to limit call times as described here was available, would you use it? How much is it actually worth to you?

Would definitely use it and would find it very useful.

[spoyser]

Would it not be better to try and work out why the calls to the 0161 number sometimes stall whereas the calls to 0845 number do not.

[healeydave]

I think you could be right, I've tried to track the issue and we only seem to have reports of problems to the 0161, either this is in-accurate or maybe tivomas tech guy could confer with londonweb ?

[tivomas]

Ive been away, getting techies to look into this

[Homer247]

Does the download screen show the percentage download remaining and the estimated time whilst in progress like the old number used to ?

[mhampshire]

Hi all- just a small contribution from me.

Check out my other post on managing daily call costs for dial up users to 5 pence a go (thats about £1.50 a month) - even on a massive two hour jammed call! (as long as you have a BT line and use the manchester server number). Click here for more info: http://www.tivoland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=970 Martin