Unmodified Tivos can now connect to AltEPG via 60 new lines

[Pete77]

The dataset should be less with altepg's 7 day guide, yet guided setup is the same or longer under altepg,
though I may be misremebering dailup, as the 40 minute dialup call takes 30 seconds or less on my cachecard with 50Meg broadband

A full 21 days of data for an NTL cable or Freeview setup only took 25 to 30 minutes in my experience as I switched between the two several times between 2002 and 2005 when I used to move the box to my mum's NTL cabled flat in London to catch the Dakar rally on Eurosport.

[Rachel]

but carry the risk that we mess up the database or create a bad slice and now we could affect a lot more people! So, we have to proceed slowly and carefully.

I think that's a very important point. It's much easier to identify (and more importantly, fix) mistakes on a networked tivo than one on dialup. This risk will undoubtedly slow development a bit. Maybe a different story once we get into beta testing since the core devs can then relax a bit and let the system run free, while bringing new stuff in through a new, restricted, alpha group, perhaps.

It's important that people realize we are still in alpha testing even though the entire user base (600+ ?) will be on AltEPG by next weekend!! There ARE warts - prod them gently

[Pete77]

It's important that people realize we are still in alpha testing even though the entire user base (600+ ?) will be on AltEPG by next weekend!! There ARE warts - prod them gently

I bet that the 600 grows rapidly to 1000 now that the Dialup only people who were cut off on 13th June are out of data and now that the network connected Tivos will also be out of data next Saturday and/or can't record right now unless people make a test call to the AltEPG to set them back to Lifetime.

For instance I haven't even registered my main networked Tivo on my AltEPG account yet.

In fact I would have thought that there would be more than 2,000 machines registered shortly and more in the long term once people who have got other PVRs (eg Sky+ or Freeview HD or Freesat HD) and stopped paying a tenner a month some time in the last three years or so get to hear that they can now be run without paying a monthly sub. Although perhaps I''m not allowing for the potential phone call cost issue as that could work out work out around £5 to £6 per month for a Tivo calling in daily unless the new Exa Networks 01 lines turn out not to be excluded from call packages when those lines come on stream.

I have also half wondered how cheaply an 0808 number could be provided by EXA Networks or Jamie's firm as most Tivos would only need to connect for around 60 to 100 minutes a month after the initial setup call and 0808 calls can be kept down to around 1p per minute in cost for the receiving call party. So £15 to £20 per annum might cover an 0808 sub to get data for a dial up only Tivo if the 0808 line could only support connection to the AltEPG servers and not the internet at large and the total call time per month allowed was limited to say 150 minutes maximum. On the other hand perhaps someone will argue that as a money transaction is involved to pay the ISP for the 0808 service this could be seen as reselling the source EPG data for commercial gain..................

On the other hand if dialup Tivos could be set eventually so that they only called in once a week on an 0845 number then even if that number gets charged and the connection fee is around 13p with BT then say a 10 minute call off peak will only be around 25p in total or just over £1 per month. The main enemy is the ever increasing per call connection charge which is designed to force people to buy an inclusive calls package even though ironically dialup 0845 numbers are usually excluded from call packages in the terms and conditions of most telecoms providers.

Also whilst realising the purist views of the AltEPG creators that they are technically still only in Alpha test they have to face the reality that their service is now going to be used in earnest and that if it isn't reliable very soon it may cause many dialup Tivos still in use to be retired and replaced with another PVR. And ultimately avoiding the retirement from service of all those Tivos is the main motivation of most of the people involved in the development of the AltEPG.

[tivomas]

@pete, ive not looked into the freephone numbers recently, but last time i looked, the calls still had to be paid for, it was just the person hosting the freephone number that had to cover the cost, on that basis, all a freephone number would do is move who pays for the bill to a central point.

[mutant_matt]

Also whilst realising the purist views of the AltEPG creators that they are technically still only in Alpha test they have to face the reality that their service is now going to be used in earnest and that if it isn't reliable very soon it may cause many dialup Tivos still in use to be retired and replaced with another PVR. And ultimately avoiding the retirement from service of all those Tivos is the main motivation of most of the people involved in the development of the AltEPG.

Pete,
I don't think that was the motivation at all. The motivation was for people to be able to keep on using their Tivo, and they can do that. If people are not happy with the offering, they may go elsewhere, and that is their choice. In fact, I've seen other people state exactly that. I use the word offering, because "service" makes it sound like there should be some sort of SLA, or guarantee of quality, and right now, IMHO, people should be grateful for what there is, and if they don't like it, don't use it. I'm not saying people also should not ask if/when this/that feature will be available, nor am I saying people should not make constructive criticisms/suggestions.

Surely the only person/people who care how many UK S1 Tivos are still out there, are people like Dave (as long as there are enough for enough people to want to continue to support a community effort for the EPG, that is). I'm not saying we shouldn't care about dialup (hell, I'm still reliant on it until I can get my turbonet working properly), but that people should realise that they should be grateful for any kind of dial up support at all.

Matt.

[ByTheCringe]

ultimately avoiding the retirement from service of all those Tivos is the main motivation of most of the people involved in the development of the AltEPG.

The motivation was for people to be able to keep on using their Tivo,

Sorry, I'm afraid I can't see any difference here!

[bandsp]

@pete, ive not looked into the freephone numbers recently, but last time i looked, the calls still had to be paid for, it was just the person hosting the freephone number that had to cover the cost, on that basis, all a freephone number would do is move who pays for the bill to a central point.

one supplier charges £10 for an 0800 number with 1000 minutes free & 4p minute afterwards a month


plus vat .. of course

[mrtickle]

Also whilst realising the purist views of the AltEPG creators that they are technically still only in Alpha test they have to face the reality that their service is now going to be used in earnest and that if it isn't reliable very soon it may cause many dialup Tivos still in use to be retired and replaced with another PVR. And ultimately avoiding the retirement from service of all those Tivos is the main motivation of most of the people involved in the development of the AltEPG.

It is you who have to face the reality that if some people stop using their TiVos because their expectations were totally out of kilter with what's available, that's their choice. The priority is the long-term stability of this volunteer effort and part of the deal is that users need to be prepared to put in the effort to help develop and test it in these early stages. Keeping as many UK S1s in use as possible was never the aim. We've dealt with this more than once before, you have a frightfully short memory.

[abarthman]

Unfortunately the call is still likely to be charged by BT as they exclude all calls to known dialup ISP numbers (whether 0845 or 01/02/03) on a 24/7 basis and this 0845 dialup number has been around so long that it is almost certain to be on BT's list of excluded known dialup internet providers.

Strangely, I wasn't charged by BT for the long call on 25 June, but checking my "Recent Usage" online just now reveals that they have charged me 33p for a 14 minute 34 seconds long call on 2 July.

33p or thereabouts each week is fine by me until such time as I get myself a network card.