How about some fun on the Forum!

[Furbag]

........ - anyone know where I can get leaded petrol these days? ......

Strangely enough at a party last Saturday I was talking to a chap who has an old MG which can't be run on unleaded petrol. Earlier in the day he had been about to fill up as usual with unleaded but on first checking in the boot for a "bottle of lead" to pour in he found he hadn't any left so he had to drive the short distance back home on what was still in the tank and get alternative transport to the party. I asked where he buys the lead and he said he had no difficulty getting it from a motor factors place.

I suspect he was using Castrols Valve master http://www.vintageandsportscarservices. ... -126-p.asp it seems to be one of the best going and a lot of the vintage folks do use it, there are a number of other replacements you can buy but you have to check the claims as they do vary.

A number of garages still sell 4* although this list is from 2010 so it might be even less by now but you can still buy 4* but it aint cheap


http://fbhvc.co.uk/fuel-information/#f3

[davidshack]

Couple of thoughts for you. . .

100 yrs ago the biggest problems about transportation in cities involved the thousands of tons of shit deposited daily by the horses - the transport of the day - plus the numerous abandoned corpses of those horses which dropped dead in the street.
"Petrol" was seen as the great saviour! Now we know it as a fuel which makes city air stinking & so unhealthy; and the noise of infernal combustion engines makes city life a misery.

One enormous benefit of electric vehicles will be the transformation of cities by reducing the S**t in the air and the NOISE. Transformation is not too strong a word. City air will be pleasant to breath again; pavements no longer suffer a hideous din. And at worst the cost of this might be a little more exhaust at a (clean & efficient) power station in the sticks. Surely a great deal!

The most powerful vested interests on the planet (oil companies, car manufacturers & government treasuries) are desperate that electric vehicles fail. All sorts of nonsense is promulgated about range, cost, lifecycles and CO2. The gullible soak it up.

The reality is that a (pure) electic vehicle - ie a battery one you re-charge - is a joy to own and will transform your life. (Hybrids are the worst of both worlds, but loved by "the interests" because their owners still buy petrol, pay maintenance & fuel taxes). An electric car is a car as easy to own as a hoover. Few moving parts, negligible maintenance, charged conveniently at home. Instead of £70-£100 every week you fill a tank, it has £0 apparent running costs - because the electricity used in recharging is lost in the house's general bill for electricity - which is paid by daddy by direct debit monthly. ie has no evident relation to the use of the car.

Anyone who has actually used an electric car won't go back. In the same way that anyone who has used a digital camera now considers it nuts that everybody considered it normal to go to a store to buy a film, took the film back to a store to be developed, went back to the store to collect the film, returned to the store to order prints, returned to the store to collect prints.

Of course car shows tell you electric is crap. Tesla does out perform Porsche & Ferrari. But BP has to get some return for their paying Clarkson's luxury stay in South Africa for the World Cup (etc etc etc).
Don't be gullible; don't be misled by the mis-information. Try electric & make up your own mind. Or PAY & CHOKE for the rest of your life.

[Velocitysurfer]

Couple of thoughts for you. . .

... And at worst the cost of this might be a little more exhaust at a (clean & efficient) power station in the sticks. Surely a great deal!

A little more exhaust ???? Using your own words -

The gullible soak it up.

The reality is that a (pure) electic vehicle - ie a battery one you re-charge - is a joy to own and will transform your life. (Hybrids are the worst of both worlds, but loved by "the interests" because their owners still buy petrol, pay maintenance & fuel taxes). An electric car is a car as easy to own as a hoover. Few moving parts, negligible maintenance, charged conveniently at home. Instead of £70-£100 every week you fill a tank, it has £0 apparent running costs - because the electricity used in recharging is lost in the house's general bill for electricity - which is paid by daddy by direct debit monthly. ie has no evident relation to the use of the car.

Are you a politician? Can I have a pair of your rose tinted glasses?

As soon as EV takes off, then the tax breaks STOP. Where is the government going to get its revenues when we all stop using oil - the tax on unleaded is approx 60%, for every £100 a week to fill your tank, £60 goes straight to the treasury.

Lets put that into perspective; according to this page http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2010/apr/08/petrol-price-increas approx 36,400MILLION litre of fuel is sold each year. Assume £1.30/litre, then the tax we pay as a nation is £28,392 Million or £28 Billion in round numbers .

Where the heck is the Government going to find £28 Billion? And that's not including the was £5.63 billion (2009 figure) in revenues from road tax - mine cost me £260 to renew last month!

[Rachel]

I asked where he buys the lead and he said he had no difficulty getting it from a motor factors place.

What will be more worrying for him will be the upcoming use of E10 (10% Ethanol) in pump fuel. Even if you add lead additive the ethanol is still there and Jaguar owners thingy did some tests which showed that a lot of Jags (and other cars) over 10 years old are really going to suffer as a result. (Oil leaks, blown seals, piston rings etc). Yet another cunning plan to make us all buy new Korean Kwap ?

[Rachel]

As soon as EV takes off, then the tax breaks STOP.

I agree completely. Since it signed up to the Kyoto Protocol the govt has to be seen to be doing something. Tax breaks for for the few EVs on the roads are a teeny tiny price to pay yet can be shouted about loudly and believed by the gullible as really making a difference to UK's CO2 emissions. But you can guarantee that as soon as any sort of critical mass is reached the bar will be moved and the tax breaks will stop. Road tax will go back to £200 for EVs and everyone (whether you actually have an EV or not!) will suffer a tax on home electricity "just in case" they have an EV. And it will do wonders for the French economy since we will have to import all the leccy from their vast array of nuclear plants. Which will get the Germans and Swedes upset at the UK and petitioning the EU to impose sanctions. The French unions will go on strike against the supply of their sole national resource being exported to the English. The French govt will of course give in to the unions as per usual and stop the supply of leccy across the stream. With the imminent risk of all vehicles in the UK running out of fuel the UK govt will be forced to annexe Brittany and Normandy "to protect the supply of energy". The Germans will side with the French. The Swedes won't be able to make up their mind. The UK's fleet of electric tanks will break down ("wrong power adapter") and be stranded on the beaches. The Russians will be rubbing their hands together at the prospect of offloading all their rusting tanks. The Italians will sneak in and annexe Monaco. Following a few years of posturing, stand-offs and minor skirmishes the USA will invade France, Germany and Liechtenstein (they took a wrong turn) "to maintain peace" and then leave 5 years later having done nothing of any value but will still charge the offending govts and demand interest on the "loans" payable over the next 50 years. The American people will be wandering around in a daze saying "Europe? Wozzat?". The French unions will go on strike demanding free bread for all those that can afford to pay. EVs will be discredited as "spawn of the devil". The UK will have yet another coalition govt. And I won't give a monkeys either way.

[ByTheCringe]

As soon as EV takes off, then the tax breaks STOP.

I agree completely. Since it signed up to the Kyoto Protocol the govt has to be seen to be doing something. Tax breaks for for the few EVs on the roads are a teeny tiny price to pay yet can be shouted about loudly and believed by the gullible as really making a difference to UK's CO2 emissions. But you can guarantee that as soon as any sort of critical mass is reached the bar will be moved and the tax breaks will stop. Road tax will go back to £200 for EVs and everyone (whether you actually have an EV or not!) will suffer a tax on home electricity "just in case" they have an EV. And it will do wonders for the French economy since we will have to import all the leccy from their vast array of nuclear plants. Which will get the Germans and Swedes upset at the UK and petitioning the EU to impose sanctions. The French unions will go on strike against the supply of their sole national resource being exported to the English. The French govt will of course give in to the unions as per usual and stop the supply of leccy across the stream. With the imminent risk of all vehicles in the UK running out of fuel the UK govt will be forced to annexe Brittany and Normandy "to protect the supply of energy". The Germans will side with the French. The Swedes won't be able to make up their mind. The Russians will be rubbing their hands together at the prospect of offloading all their rusting tanks. The Italians will sneak in and annexe Monaco. Following a few years of posturing, stand-offs and minor skirmishes the USA will invade France, Germany and Liechtenstein (they took a wrong turn) "to maintain peace" and then leave 5 years later having done nothing of any value but will still charge the offending govts and demand interest on the "loans" payable over the next 50 years. The American people will be wandering around in a daze saying "Europe? Wozzat?". The French unions will go on strike demanding free bread for all those that can afford to pay. EVs will be discredited as "spawn of the devil". The UK will have yet another coalition govt. And I won't give a monkeys either way.

The thing to do is to take advantage of these handouts from the government. When I bought my first Prius, I got a cash incentive (£1000, I think). I'm on my third one now. If I wanted to go through London, I could have had the Congestion Charge for £10 a year (think that's gone now though). My tax disc is free. I get very good fuel economy (OK, I could probably better it if went to a small diesel, but this is a large car). Incidentally, it is incredibly reliable, and I don't keep getting bills for brake pads (regenerative braking means I don't wear them out much), clutch pads (no clutch), and repairs to the gearbox, starter motor and alternator (none of them). It is "fly-by-wire" and at the last count, has 14 computers.

Next year, something better appears, the Vauxhall Ampera (Chevy Volt equivalent), and I'm hoping for £5000 from the government to help me switch to that.

[ByTheCringe]

Just realised, there appear to be only 10 regular viewers of this thread...

[sstman]

probably as the title was 'How about some fun on the forum', and its turned into a quasy political brawl about CO2 and leccie cars! Hybrids? CRAP, I drive a 3 ltr Porsche, and a 2 ltr Porsche, I have FUN driving my 'babes' and really can not get excited about the yet unborn....

[ByTheCringe]

probably as the title was 'How about some fun on the forum', and its turned into a quasy political brawl about CO2 and leccie cars! Hybrids? CRAP, I drive a 3 ltr Porsche, and a 2 ltr Porsche, I have FUN driving my 'babes' and really can not get excited about the yet unborn....

Well, apart from your having chosen the most over-priced brand I can think of, good for you. My car before the Prius was the Toyota Supra Turbo, which had a top speed of 153mph, but I got a bit old for it.

[davidshack]

As soon as EV takes off, then the tax breaks STOP.

So what? IF I have the choice - for the same amount in taxes - between quieter cities with clean air OR today's noisy cities which stink then I choose quiet & clean. "It's the environment, stupid".

And IF I have the choice - for a similar "fuel" cost per mile - between a zero maintenance electric car & a "101 things to replace/go wrong" petrol one then I have choose (& have chosen) an electric one.
If YOU haven't tried electric, you really have no concept of the advantages. Instant 100% power at any speed - easy to see off sstman's porsches. Great handling due to optimum weight distribution: no big lump in the front. Zero worry: no oil, no oil filter, no spark plugs, no fuel filter, no fuel tank, no clutch, no exhaust, no silencers, no timing chain, no head gaskets, no gearbox, no gearbox oil, no differential, no differential oil, no CV joints, no half-shafts, no UJs, no radiator, no antifreeze, no cooling system, no fan belt, no alternator, (almost) never replace brake pads, nothing to grease (except door hinges), far more useable load space. Never hunting a filling station on a Sunday night - or when you're late for work. No more interminable filling station queues. No more shocks at the cashier.

I'm explaining EVs to help my fellow TiVoers "get it". But hey, listen, you want to stick in the 20th century that's fine by me. The longer (most) people continue to pay for petrol, the longer before Governments remove my tax breaks on EVs! Manufacturers' waiting lists for new EVs are anyway all full for years to come.

Some people still wash the dishes & their clothes by hand in a bowl too!

[Rachel]

Hey I'm not denying there are benefits to EVs, it's just not as clear cut as the initially suggested "fact".

How do you deal with the fact that we can't produce enough electricity for the demand in the UK? (we already import electricity from France). If everyone switched to EVs the lights would go out.

You seem to be conveniently ignoring that point.

[Brother52]

Zero worry: no oil, no oil filter, no spark plugs, no fuel filter, no fuel tank, no clutch, no exhaust, no silencers, no timing chain, no head gaskets, no gearbox, no gearbox oil, no differential, no differential oil, no CV joints, no half-shafts, no UJs, no radiator, no antifreeze, no cooling system, no fan belt, no alternator

You forgot the rather large quantity of highly toxic/volatile Lithum (Ion/Poly?) cells that it *does* have.

I'm explaining EVs to help my fellow TiVoers "get it!"

No, no you're not - like all good proponents/evangelists you're cherry-picking tidbits of information to promote your personal beliefs, while conveniently ignoring the less convenient facts.

Nobody is claiming that IC is perfect. But neither is the EV...

[Velocitysurfer]

Even mode of transport has it's pros and cons. When people quote facts without referring to credible sources the stated facts then become disputed and count arguments are then put forward.

In the case of EVs no one knows all the cradle to grave facts, nor do we know the impact of moving from an IC engine to ELectric engines. There are other alternatives which need exploring like hydrogen power which is in it's infantcey just like IC was over 100 years ago.

Here's a poor analogy;
In many respects sky+ is better than TiVo, but we all stick with TiVo because of our experience/knowledge of it. Just like alternative forms of transport/propulsion we stick with what we know.

[Heuer]

Well we have just covered 890 miles in three days through France in our E-Type roadster, something no EV could do and certainly with not as much panache. Downside is the cost of Super unleaded which is £1.55/litre but although the 95 octane alternative is 10p less it contains 10% ethanol which adversely affects performance, consumption and components. Running an E-Type around Europe is becoming prohibitively expensive when we only get 15mpg - still it has to be done!

[Furbag]

Well we have just covered 890 miles in three days through France in our E-Type roadster, something no EV could do and certainly with not as much panache. Downside is the cost of Super unleaded which is £1.55/litre but although the 95 octane alternative is 10p less it contains 10% ethanol which adversely affects performance, consumption and components. Running an E-Type around Europe is becoming prohibitively expensive when we only get 15mpg - still it has to be done!

............and thats the reason EV's wont ever really take off until they can "fix" the fast charging issue, folks just dont want to wait around several hours to "fill the tank", I saw someone comment that its the oil companies that are stopping the progress of EV's, its nothing of the sort the EV is stopping itself due to the long recharge time that folks just cant live with

I've owned several EV's for over 15yrs, currently I'm on my 3rd and as I mentioned in the first or second post they arnt the ultimate in transport but these days with massive fuel prices it makes sence for me when I do a 50mile round trip in it as the cost is about £1, compared to +£6 if I took the oil burner , ok so it will take me 6-7hrs for it to recharge but then I'll use a different mode of transport if I need to, but TBH on most days I personally dont do any more than 50miles, in fact most days it far less.


Personally the longer EV's take come on line the better as they will only tax them once they become main stream, then I'll have to go and buy a horse ........but then I dont think they are cheap to run at all

Great debate mind you, with some good views come over

Furbag