Virgin Tivo Stall at Victoria Station - Give Them Your Views

[Pete77]

This is just to let you all know that last Thursday morning (July 21st 2011) I came across a large temporary stand on the concourse of Victoria mainline railway station exclusively marketing the new Virgin Tivo rather than just Virgin Media products in general. Unfortunately I didn't have any form of picture taking device with me at the time as my normal mobile phone has just broken and I am using an ancient mobile phone replacement temporarily.

Naturally you can imagine that this acted somewhat like a red rag to the proverbial bull and I was eager to let them have my views.

In answer to my question as to why my perfectly good S1 Tivo no longer had an official Tivo EPG available to it when I could not upgrade to a Virgin Media Tivo they had no answer or excuse to offer. In answer to my question as to why Virgin Media failed to ever extend its cable footprint beyond 50% of UK homes they made the usual noises about trials hanging fibre from BT poles but offered little real hope that anything would change anytime soon. I was eager to point out to them that both my current countryside exchange and my mother's rural exchange are due to be upgraded to 48Mbps BT Infinity in January 2012 but that Virgin Media has no equivalent plans to extend their footprint to cover their exchange areas.

Some bloke called Mark on the stand who said he was a senior Virgin sales person (at management level rather than of the doorstep kind) but couldn't offer any real justification as to why the Virgin Tivo is only available to 50% of the UK. His only eventual suggestion was that I needed to move home in order to have a new Virgin Tivo.

My suggestion is to go along and give Virgin your view if you will be getting a train up to London Victoria during the rest of this week as the stand is there till the end of the month (Friday July 29th). It seems to be manned Monday to Friday at least between say 8am and 6pm and possibly a little later. I am sure some of you here will enjoy the chance to give Virgin Media your view directly on the non availability of the Virgin Media Tivo to the area you live in and/or the excessive cost of the service for those of you who do live in the Virgin Media cable area.

[mrtickle]

Naturally you can imagine that this acted somewhat like a red rag to the proverbial bull and I was eager to let them have my views.

Yes, I can imagine!

[Furbag]

Nice one Pete Trouble is we're small fry in Beardy world, and personally I'm prefering the fact we're being "different" and not just turning into sheeple

Furbag

[Pete77]

Nice one Pete Trouble is we're small fry in Beardy world, and personally I'm prefering the fact we're being "different" and not just turning into sheeple

The question is if I lived in Virgin Tivo land would I be getting a Virgin Tivo or sticking only with an old S1 box and Alt EPG. Taking all factors in to account (including needing to watch British Eurosport a few times a year and Formula 1 now being in HD) my conclusion is that I would upgrade to a 500GB Virgin Tivo with an M+ package and then stick in a larger 2TB hard drive myself a year or so later (assuming there is nothing to stop you doing this).

Oh and by the way this salesman Mark wasted no time at all in asking me if I didn't have Virgin ADSL in my non cabled area to which I wasted no time at all in telling him why on earth would I want an ADSL service that regularly scores at the bottom of all customer satisfaction league tables and strangles the bandwidth down to nothing during peak hours.

As to Beardy it seems quite a few of his products are not as good as he likes to paint them. For instance Beardy's answer to someone visiting the UK on one of his cheaper Economy tickets falling sick and needing a new flight a week later is that they have to buy a brand new one one way single from Heathrow to Los Angeles in steerage class at a wholly extortionate 1500USD on top of the 350USD or so they have already paid for this sector in the original ticket price. And Beardy only allows a meagre 6kg of hand luggage long haul in steerage compared to BA's maximum 23kg of hand luggage (if you can fit it in the dimensions) plus a handbag or laptop bag too in the cabin in steerage class. Finally Beardy has a latest check in time of a wholly ridiculous 60 minutes before the flight compared to BA's 45 minutes. In short despite the hype Virgin's products are clearly not always the best quality or value.

[Tcm2007]

Oh and by the way this salesman Mark wasted no time at all in asking me if I didn't have Virgin ADSL in my non cabled area to which I wasted no time at all in telling him why on earth would I want an ADSL service that regularly scores at the bottom of all customer satisfaction league tables and strangles the bandwidth down to nothing during peak hours.

I can only imagine what he called you behind your back as you walked away. Really makes your day when you're out selling your product to meet someone whose only purpose is to be a Grade 1 arse.

As to Beardy it seems quite a few of his products are not as good as he likes to paint them. For instance Beardy's answer to someone visiting the UK on one of his cheaper Economy tickets falling sick and needing a new flight a week later is that they have to buy a brand new one one way single from Heathrow to Los Angeles in steerage class at a wholly extortionate 1500USD on top of the 350USD or so they have already paid for this sector in the original ticket price.

Eh? Only you would expect an airline to be flexible with a non flexible ticket. That's what travel insurance is for.

And Beardy only allows a meagre 6kg of hand luggage long haul in steerage compared to BA's maximum 23kg of hand luggage (if you can fit it in the dimensions) plus a handbag or laptop bag too in the cabin in steerage class.

23kg is pretty notional; I don't know how you'd make a bag that size that heavy short of lead weights. And you need to be able to put it in the overhead unaided - I don't think I can bench press 50lbs.

Finally Beardy has a latest check in time of a wholly ridiculous 60 minutes before the flight compared to BA's 45 minutes. In short despite the hype Virgin's products are clearly not always the best quality or value.

Do you think that might be connected to BA operating in the brand spanking new Terminal 5 while Virgin makes do with the decrepit Terminal 3?

[FliesOpen]

I think it's time to look at this again: http://networkconference.netstudies.org/2011/04/what-makes-a-troll-a-troll-%E2%80%93-negative-behaviour-and-its-effect-on-community/

[Pete77]

Do you think that might be connected to BA operating in the brand spanking new Terminal 5 while Virgin makes do with the decrepit Terminal 3?

No having been down to Heathrow T3 today to help finally see this very dependent lady back off to America (when she had to stay on 8 days due to being ill and my 76 year old mum nearly had a nervous breakdown as she had already been staying with her on and off for four and a half weeks) the reason Virgin want you there 60 minutes beforehand is because they quite pathetically operate 10 or 12 separate queues for their Economy so called Bag Drop compared to BA's efficient single queue system. This means if you get stuck behind a couple of people who need to repack or who have passport type issues you could easily need that extra 15 minutes in the queue you are stuck in whilst other queues whizz by you. I also saw them pick up the passengers in front of us on the 6kg hand luggage weight rule for an entirely reasonably sized bag with no more than 8kg or 9kg in it thus necessitating them to spend 3 or 4 minutes repacking. I'm not aware of any significant differences in the luggage lockers in economy between a Virgin A340 and a BA777 that require such differences in the weight passengers are allowed. Regarding minimum check in times I believe 20 minutes used to be the latest that you could check in at Heathrow T1-3 on most flights not that many years ago. T5 seems to be infamous largely for its capability to mislay a customer's bags rather than for its speedy service.

As to only me expecting airlines to be flexible with a non flexible ticket the point is that the new single was also booked on a Virgin flight and the cancellation of the other flight was notified more than 24 hours ahead on an extremely peak day of the year when they could probably re-sell it. For a 1600USD change fee from LHR to LAX I think someone should at least be travelling in the Premium Economy/World Traveller Plus cabin. The ticket was booked through a US travel agent called http://www.orbitz.com and it seems to be they who committed highway robbery on the daughter of my mother's elderly friend from the US. Regarding travel insurance the lady had some but there seemed to be all sorts of get out clauses in the policy regarding needing to be hospitalised rather than merely having a chest infection that made it difficult to breathe and needed a course of anti-biotics during which a doctor recommended she did not fly. When someone is 75 medical insurers are very keen indeed to try to declare your mishap a pre-existing condition. We did however get a UK doctor to sign a form her US insurer saying she was too ill so fingers crossed the insurer will pay out.

At the end of day my assessment is that Virgin Upper Class may still be better than BA Club/Business (twiddly bits like a limo to the airport etc) but that Virgin's basic Economy is significantly worse, especially if you need to alter your flight to a different date. BA's change fee in this situation would have been pa maximum of 500GBP/750 US Dollars so less than half the amount. I know that you usually seem to believe in old fashioned capitalist exploitation to the max of customers where demand exceeds supply but there is also such a thing as long term customer good will (on most company balance sheets) and this kind of treatment in a situation you can't help (illness) this kind of treatment creates a lot of bad will and bad feedback amongst that passenger's friends and relations.

[Tcm2007]

Most cheap tickets don't allow changes of any kind; you are simply buying a new ticket. If you couldn't get a flight to LA for under a grand with a week's notice your travel agent wants shooting.

Customer service is a good thing, give away a $1,500 seat to keep someone who's flown on an ultra cheap ticket happy? Really?

Why you are stressing about a 15 minute difference in baggage drop times is beyond me. AFAIR both airlines recommend at least two hours, and even I wouldn't risk getting to Heathrow 45 mins before a transatlantic flight, whatever the operator said. And I am legendary for cutting it fine ( to the point of missing flights!)

You are clearly one of the "rules are for other people" types who disregard perfectly reasonable weight/size limits, and doubtless get into a complete huff when someone calls you on it. I bet you use mobile phones in the quiet carriage.

[Tcm2007]

Actually I take it back on the flight cost- must be the time of year, but USD1,600 looks about right.

I don't think you're right about the BA change fee though. You always have to pay the difference, he change fee is on top.

[Furbag]

Bring the chat back to something TiVo like

Nice one Pete Trouble is we're small fry in Beardy world, and personally I'm prefering the fact we're being "different" and not just turning into sheeple

The question is if I lived in Virgin Tivo land would I be getting a Virgin Tivo or sticking only with an old S1 box and Alt EPG. Taking all factors in to account (including needing to watch British Eurosport a few times a year and Formula 1 now being in HD) my conclusion is that I would upgrade to a 500GB Virgin Tivo with an M+ package and then stick in a larger 2TB hard drive myself a year or so later (assuming there is nothing to stop you doing this).

I live in a Beardy TiVo land but still wont play their game at their prices , just the fact they want me to pay for something that I dont actually own and then want me to pay a sub on top of that AND force me into a channel line up that I dont want is just taking the ..........

If and when they start to give them away OR remove the sub and make it so you dont have to have the package they want you to have then I'll be interested.
Until then viva la altEPG
Furbag

[Pete77]

I live in a Beardy TiVo land but still wont play their game at their prices , just the fact they want me to pay for something that I dont actually own and then want me to pay a sub on top of that AND force me into a channel line up that I dont want is just taking the ..........

I agree in principle that I don't like paying a subscription for tv at all but I think that's partly a cultural thing bred in to us middle class types that paying the BBC licence fee ought to be enough. I still have to pay stupidly high monthly fees for other things I will never own like that miserable pieced of 20 year old BT copper wire or another fee to use BT's DSLAM and my ISP's broadband backbone. Not to mention £300 per month to a bunch of petty tyrant fellow residents who lord it over me running our residents management company yet apparently still don't have the budget for weedkiller on our gravel paths that are now sprouting lush thick grass all over them.

However compared to SKy Virgin Media is much cheaper for their base tv package and the PVR is much better than a Sky+ box so if you accept the premise of paying for subscription tv at all it still seems a much better deal than Sky HD.

Major marketing mistake by the way in that they didn't call it a Virgin Tivo HD............

[Pete77]

Most cheap tickets don't allow changes of any kind

Sorry grandad but you are at least 10 years out of date. Most cheap tickets are changeable on cheap airlines like Easyjet, Ryanair or Monarch but you pay a change fee and the difference between the original fare and the new fare. On a Ryanair flight that may make it cheaper just to throw away the original ticket but in this case a BA change fee would only be 25 quid or so for the sector plus the fare increase would have been no more than 500 quid for this sector. A lot I will grant you but only half of what it cost with Virgin due to wiping out any value in the original ticket and making you buy a one way fully flexible fare instead of just paying top wack for a normal fare for that sector booking late in the day.

Still I can see why some companies have terms and conditions quite as unfair and pernicious as they do when people like your good self quite clearly seem to think that anything goes in the name of earning a fat profit to pay the company's senior staff and directors their even fatter wages. Hang on a minute isn't that we had to set up an Office of Fair Trading and a Health and Safety Executive because unbridled capitalism with its short term sighted view does not always bring the best results for the majority of the people the majority of the time.

[Tcm2007]

t in this case a BA change fee would only be 25 quid or so for the sector plus the fare increase would have been no more than 500 quid for this sector. A lot I will grant you but only half of what it cost with Virgin due to wiping out any value in the original ticket and making you buy a one way fully flexible fare instead of just paying top wack for a normal fare for that sector booking late in the day.

Still I can see why some companies have terms and conditions quite as unfair and pernicious as they do when people like your good self quite clearly seem to think that anything goes in the name of earning a fat profit to pay the company's senior staff and directors their even fatter wages. Hang on a minute isn't that we had to set up an Office of Fair Trading and a Health and Safety Executive because unbridled capitalism with its short term sighted view does not always bring the best results for the majority of the people the majority of the time.

I don't know where you get BA's £500 maximum from, I can't see that anywhere on their website. As far as I can see looking on their T&Cs BA charge up to £100 plus the difference in fares; Virgin up to £120 plus the difference in fares.

In fact Virgin waive the fee if the passenger of family member has been ill. BA make no such provision.

So you seem to have it entirely backwards.

It is "unbridled capitalism" that give you returns to LA for £450. To then complain that such a cheap flight does not give you the same flexibility as a full price £1,800 seat is the kind of entitlement culture which sadly pervades British society now.